Panini does it! pt. II, A debate with myself about redemptions

[tzofosho]

In my last, super long winded post (http://community.cardboardconnection...demptions.html) I told the story of how I should have an amazing Drew Brees auto in the mail tomorrow.

Receiving this card was a dream, as it will easily be the best in my PC (other than maybe some TTM LSU cards I'm particularly fond of).

As I thought about the sequence of events, I began to think of how this was a questionable way to fill my request.

I beg you friends, picture another fan of the great #9, Sir Breesus (really aren't we all fans?). This man, clearly of greater means than myself, purchases a box of Panini Black after seeing a great Cardboard Connection write up on the product. Said rich man knows that there's a particular Brees auto in the set, and there should be at least 25 of them floating around.

What this rich, albeit foolish man doesn't realize is that humble Tzo has instead received one of these cards as a redemption, cutting his odds, and the product run to no more than 24. This seems extremely unfair to this person who spent upwards of $150 on a box...

I don't know, I guess I'm just curious how everyone feels about this(and I'm sure its a topic thats been rehashed 9 million times)? While I'm thrilled for me, Panini has essentially robbed Peter (the rich jerk) to pay Paul (Tzo, our humble hero).

Why dear god why, can't you actually list what's in the box in your product description, and screw this redemption/points system???!!!

Lucky Tzo out

[hayn]

I have been only collecting football cards exclusively from December 15, 2012 at 47 years old. Yes, I'm definitely way behind the eight ball Mr. Tzo. I understand the whole dichotomy of hits and the redemption process. I do know that compared to Topps Panini seems to be much more accurately giving information hence touching base with collectors and following through with their redemptions via email and their forum "Knights Lance".

I'd like to share a redemption if I may. Last year, Mrs. Toshi purchased 2012 Panini Totally Certified, this hobby box was definitely one of her favorite products. She pulled a Russell Wilson RPA in which it took one year to fulfill. Panini did keep collectors up to date on this redemption. Finally having this card in hand was such a relief. Finding and or not finding a hit in each hobby box, the later seems much more exciting.

Of course as every forum member is aware, Mrs. Toshi has incredible luck. In a six month time frame, Mrs. Toshi pulled a Martin, Morris, Luck, RGIII, Wilson, and a Tannehill RPA to be followed by a a sandcastle auto. Obviously, we are always having fun breaking our hobby boxes with such luck on our side. Even my collecting partner, my daughters boyfriend Brett said that he gets so jealous in our hits and cannot believe this streak that never ends.

Going back to your point in which a hobby box would describe each card within, that would be absolutely awesome yet the excitement of a potential hit will now cease. This is definitely a twofold issue! As for the redemption vs point system? I'm not a fan at all of the point system but at the same time, I have yet to experience this scenario and I will give my final critique when I receive my first points.

My issue here is that I am a fan of 2012 football cards. I completely disliked 2013 products as our biggest hit of notoriety was our 2013 Panini Prestige Auto Leon Sandcastle SP 12/21. How sad is it that the biggest chase of 2013 was a fake player played by Deion Sanders! Ultimately, 2013 was a weak draft class as far as collecting goes. Please understand that this is just my humble personal opinion. With that being said, it seems the biggest hit this year is of Johnny Manziel and Manziel only. Everyone else fell to the side. Just look at eBay prices as well as Beckett book values. This is disturbing at best.

Brett has told us time and time again that the 2012 draft class excitement will possibly never repeat itself as it was very special with Luck, RGIII, Wilson, Tannehill, Morris, and Martin. Hence we are, in his words; "Extremely spoiled brats"! We should be more open minded and we will do our best to do so. Ultimately as much as I enjoy the not knowing factor of what hit will come to fruition, if we had bad luck (Of which we have more than our fare share of Michael "Eggplant" Egnew RPA's) in our breaks, I would be at the fore front in touting and urging the manufactures in releasing the hits in every hobby box and or blaster box.


Toshi

[bcw716]

In my last, super long winded post (http://community.cardboardconnection...demptions.html) I told the story of how I should have an amazing Drew Brees auto in the mail tomorrow.

Receiving this card was a dream, as it will easily be the best in my PC (other than maybe some TTM LSU cards I'm particularly fond of).

As I thought about the sequence of events, I began to think of how this was a questionable way to fill my request.

I beg you friends, picture another fan of the great #9, Sir Breesus (really aren't we all fans?). This man, clearly of greater means than myself, purchases a box of Panini Black after seeing a great Cardboard Connection write up on the product. Said rich man knows that there's a particular Brees auto in the set, and there should be at least 25 of them floating around.

What this rich, albeit foolish man doesn't realize is that humble Tzo has instead received one of these cards as a redemption, cutting his odds, and the product run to no more than 24. This seems extremely unfair to this person who spent upwards of $150 on a box...

I don't know, I guess I'm just curious how everyone feels about this(and I'm sure its a topic thats been rehashed 9 million times)? While I'm thrilled for me, Panini has essentially robbed Peter (the rich jerk) to pay Paul (Tzo, our humble hero).

Why dear god why, can't you actually list what's in the box in your product description, and screw this redemption/points system???!!!

Lucky Tzo out

It could be the Drew Brees card was a redemption as well & someone took a replacement on it. I pulled a Tom Brady redemption in 2011 & apparently he only signs once every couple years(I saw the particular card go live in 2013). I was only going to sell the card so I took a replacement on that and got a couple cards I wanted instead. I think it's well known that Panini(and Topps) hold some big hits out of the product or never even make the card at all BUT your particular card could have been a redemption that would never be fulfilled b/c someone took a replacement instead.

[tzofosho]

It could be the Drew Brees card was a redemption as well & someone took a replacement on it.

That's a good point BCW, I had not considered this. I'll hope this is the case and that I didn't screw someone out of a great Panini Black pull.

I think it's well known that Panini(and Topps) hold some big hits out of the product or never even make the card at all BUT your particular card could have been a redemption that would never be fulfilled b/c someone took a replacement instead.

This was kind of where my thoughts were headed. I just think it's interesting how much we as collectors take. It's just insanity to me that a company is able to hold hits or never make a card and advertise it as part of the product. I don't generally buy boxes because $100 is just shy of a quarter of my rent. In the box breaks I've participated in, I don't think I've ever seen an auto pull on the level of a Brees, Brady, Manning (Brees 1st, natch), Adrian Peterson, etc. During these breaks, I normally try to calculate the value of the hits and it just seems so rare that the hits come anywhere near recouping what was paid for the box, on most occasions. It just makes me wonder.

[tzofosho]

My issue here is that I am a fan of 2012 football cards. I completely disliked 2013 products as our biggest hit of notoriety was our 2013 Panini Prestige Auto Leon Sandcastle SP 12/21. How sad is it that the biggest chase of 2013 was a fake player played by Deion Sanders! Ultimately, 2013 was a weak draft class as far as collecting goes. Please understand that this is just my humble personal opinion. With that being said, it seems the biggest hit this year is of Johnny Manziel and Manziel only. Everyone else fell to the side. Just look at eBay prices as well as Beckett book values. This is disturbing at best.

Brett has told us time and time again that the 2012 draft class excitement will possibly never repeat itself as it was very special with Luck, RGIII, Wilson, Tannehill, Morris, and Martin. Hence we are, in his words; "Extremely spoiled brats"! We should be more open minded and we will do our best to do so. Ultimately as much as I enjoy the not knowing factor of what hit will come to fruition, if we had bad luck (Of which we have more than our fare share of Michael "Eggplant" Egnew RPA's) in our breaks, I would be at the fore front in touting and urging the manufactures in releasing the hits in every hobby box and or blaster box.
Toshi

I wasn't particularly inspired by 2012 or 2013 cards (this has more to do with the caliber of Saints rookies and LSU players leaving (though LSU did have a strong showing in UD sets) than the actual classes themselves.) Which is why my redemption was from 2011, that was the last time I had been in a box break...that said, the 2013 class did seem particularly boring (I guess that's what happens when the 1st seven picks are linemen.)

I agree the 2012 class was one that is tough to match, but I do feel as though this years class is a fairly exciting one (Clowney, Watkins, Manziel) and even the 2nd round produced a number of interesting picks (Jarvis Landry will be a monster). I think the 2012 and 2013 class is a comparison of a spectacular class matched against a fairly weak class, providing a number of collector's disappointment with 2013, coming off of such a strong 2012.

Summary:
I think I just used a lot of words to say "I agree with Brett's point, for the most part."

Tzo out

[hayn]

I wasn't particularly inspired by 2012 or 2013 cards (this has more to do with the caliber of Saints rookies and LSU players leaving (though LSU did have a strong showing in UD sets) than the actual classes themselves.) Which is why my redemption was from 2011, that was the last time I had been in a box break...that said, the 2013 class did seem particularly boring (I guess that's what happens when the 1st seven picks are linemen.)

I agree the 2012 class was one that is tough to match, but I do feel as though this years class is a fairly exciting one (Clowney, Watkins, Manziel) and even the 2nd round produced a number of interesting picks (Jarvis Landry will be a monster). I think the 2012 and 2013 class is a comparison of a spectacular class matched against a fairly weak class, providing a number of collector's disappointment with 2013, coming off of such a strong 2012.

Summary:
I think I just used a lot of words to say "I agree with Brett's point, for the most part."

Tzo out

I so enjoy our back and forth discussion, we should have our own show called; "The Tzo of Toshism"! Your football knowledge supersedes my minimal knowledge, I guess I will need to wait until October to see how the 2014 draft class plays out. Until then I will take your word on it. Yes, we are spoiled brats.


Toshi

[tzofosho]

I so enjoy our back and forth discussion, we should have our own show called; "The Tzo of Toshism"! Your football knowledge supersedes my minimal knowledge, I guess I will need to wait until October to see how the 2014 draft class plays out. Until then I will take your word on it. Yes, we are spoiled brats.


Toshi

"The Tzo of Toshism"™ would be the toast of the web...screw that Charlie Kid and his finger. I too enjoy the back and forth...LOL @ my football knowledge...I'm just a huge LSU fan who thinks Jarvis Landry will be a better NFL receiver than Odell Beckham Jr.