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  • NHL Labor Talks - NHL, NHLPA agree on 10-year CBA term

    I just have to say I can't believe The NHL is at this point again. Did they not learn their lesson last time when they lost a ton of their fan base? Myself being one of them. For Bettman to come out and say he'd lock players out by a Sept. 15th deadline is just dumbfounding! I used to love Hockey. No other sport comes close to a playoff Hockey game on TV or live. I used to know almost every single player. Now I couldn't name 10. Do they not realize if they go down this road again it's basically the end of their sport? I just can't believe they've let this even get close to where they are now.. Any thoughts from anyone who is still a serious Hockey fan on this? Others?
    Fav. teams are Eagles, Astros, Flyers and Sixers. Prospects and rookies of any teams.
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  • #2
    When Gary Bettman promised lower tickets prices, and the lockout failed to deliver | Puck Daddy - Yahoo! Sports

    One of NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman's most remarkable attributes, along with his mutant ability to absorb colossal booing without losing his grin, is the way he rarely offers ammunition to his opponents.

    He sticks to his messages like Tom Cruise climbing that tower in Dubai. While others can describe the taste of their own sole, Bettman rarely places his foot in his mouth. When he sits down with someone who can spar with him — see any of his Ron MacLean duels — Bettman turns questions on the inquisitor, keeps the answers vague and refusing to acknowledge the confrontational interview was even "confrontational."

    He also finds theorizing in the media to be repellant, shutting down speculative questions in every press conference I've attended. Why predict when one can assess after a deal is done? (This is usually when something like the Phoenix Coyotes and relocation are suggested.)

    Yet all of what Bettman does so well as the owners' mouthpiece was undone in an infamous prediction back in 2004: That a new economic system in the NHL would yield lower ticket prices for a "majority" of teams.

    It's the most oft-repeated "lie" of the previous lockout, and has haunted Bettman ever since the owners got the system they wanted following a season in ruin. It remains one of the most popular talking points among Bettman's critics, and offered as evidence that the owners are not to be trusted.

    So where did it originate?

    The ticket "pledge" has been a plank in the pro-players platform since the lockout.

    From Larry Books of the NY Post on Aug. 12:

    "Eight years ago, the NHL mounted a massive public relations campaign to justify its reach into the players' pockets, much of the appeal to the fans resting on a pledge that a hard cap would result in lower ticket prices."

    From agent Allan Walsh via Twitter this month:

    "The average NHL ticket price has increased 39% since 2004 when Gary Bettman promised fans a salary cap would lower ticket prices."

    From Luke DeCock of the News & Observer on Saturday:

    In 2004, Bettman promised ticket prices would go down if the league got the labor agreement it wanted. He even scoffed at the "abstract theory" of supply and demand.

    "The fact of the matter is, more than a majority of our teams would use the opportunity of economic stability to lower their ticket prices," Bettman said.

    The fact of the matter is, the average NHL ticket went up almost 25 percent in the five years following the lockout, according to Team Marketing Report. (The average Hurricanes ticket went from $31.77 in 2004 to $41.58 in 2010.)

    The Bettman Ticket-Price Promise tracks back to his "State of the NHL" address at the 2004 All-Star Game in Minnesota, whose transcript has been preserved on several message boards including NJDevs.com right here.

    It was a typically wide-ranging conversation, with the CBA negotiations taking the spotlight. But there was a special focus on the impact of a work stoppage on the fans and ticket prices:

    Q. Are you prepared to make any sort of assurance to fans that if there is cost certainty, if you achieve your goals in the C.B.A., that there will be some cost certainty in terms of ticket prices, as well? In a lot of cities, it's more supply and demand than it is revenues.

    COMMISSIONER BETTMAN: I'm going to answer your question, but I'm really glad we are not getting bogged down on collective bargaining on All Star Weekend.

    Every market is different. Every club's ticket pricing structure is different. We've actually had some teams that have recently lowered ticket prices. I believe that our current economic system has been inflationary, not only with respect to our expenses, but with respect to ticket prices, as well. And I do believe there is a direct link.

    With the right economic system we can take the pressure off of ticket prices, and I believe with the right economic system, many, if not most of our teams, will actually lower ticket prices. I believe we owe it to our fans to have affordable ticket prices.

    I've often bristled at the idea that Bettman "promised" fans lower ticket prices, because that's a level of commitment he rarely reaches in his rhetoric — outside of promising, like, the Winter Classic will be a "unique experience" or some such.

    But there's nothing vague about this: With the "right" system, "many if not most" of the NHL's teams "will actually lower ticket prices."

    Q. Do you really believe that the teams that are filling their buildings now with the ticket prices that are now will be willing to drop ticket prices if there's cost certainty?

    COMMISSIONER BETTMAN: What I said was it varies market to market. The one thing that would not be sensible to do is lower your ticket prices to enrich scalpers. That doesn't make any sense. But the fact of the matter is, more than a majority of our teams would use the opportunity of economic stability to lower their ticket prices. It varies from market to market. As I said there are some teams that have lowered their ticket prices already.

    "Enrich the scalpers?" The hell?

    In 2004, by and by the way, there were 15 NHL teams with an average home attendance (tickets distributed) of over 17,000 fans. That number stood at 18 in 2011-12; and 14 of them average over 18,000 fans per game.

    Q. Just picking up on the ticket prices point, an economics professor would probably say that ticket prices should be based on what a market can support and the yield; not on expenses. Can you comment on that and why it is then that teams would lower their ticket prices if salaries went down?

    COMMISSIONER BETTMAN: Economics professors generally teach classes of theory in school. They don't operate businesses and they don't operate sports franchises. I've been in professional sports for 24 years, and I'm telling you, there's a direct link between what happens in an inflationary environment where teams are losing money and what they feel compelled to charge for tickets. I have absolutely no doubt there is that link. And that's from real-world experience and not based on abstract theory.

    This will now get me in trouble with lots of economics professors in North America, but so be it.

    No word if the North American economics professors began calculating the cost of revenge on Gary Bettman after that fateful day …

    Bettman and the owners would continue that rhetoric right through the cancellation of the 2004-05 season, as Bettman said on Feb. 17:

    "Nobody knows what the damage to the sport will be. … Nobody knows what revenues we can count on. I suspect we're going to have to do a lot with our business partners, with our fans in terms of ticket prices."

    But let's take it back to one key phrase here, and how it applies to the current CBA debate between the NHL and the NHLPA:

    "There's a direct link between what happens in an inflationary environment where teams are losing money and what they feel compelled to charge for tickets."

    The previous system was seen as inflationary. The "cost certainty" of a hard cap was seen as its antithesis. By that logic, teams would lose less money and the savings would be passed onto the consumer. And yet NHL tickets cost 39 percent more now than they did in 2004, on average.

    But let's go with Bettman's premise for a second: If teams aren't losing money, then their ticket prices will reflect those profits. Wouldn't increased revenue sharing, as proposed by the NHLPA, then help stabilize or bring down the cost of tickets in places like Nashville ($51.04, on average, from Team Marketing Report) or Long Island ($49.06)?

    Of course not. Because in the end, ticket prices aren't affected by increased profits for owners or lower salaries for players in a new CBA. Take it away Jamie Fitzpatrick from About.com, back in 2005:

    Like any other commodity, an NHL ticket is priced according to supply and demand. A team that sells out every game will almost certainly raise ticket prices on a regular basis, because it can. A team playing to a half-empty building will eventually have no option but to cut the cost of a ticket.

    How else do you explain the fact that the Buffalo Sabres announced cuts to ticket prices for 2004-05, even though they increased their payroll over the summer? The Sabres have too many empty seats to fill.

    In fact, figures throughout the NHL suggest their is little relationship between ticket prices and salaries.

    The New York Rangers, for example, have posted the highest payrolls in NHL history in recent years. But their average ticket price ranked 12th in the league in 2003-04, partly because the Rangers have to keep prices reasonable to compete in a sports-saturated market.

    It's supply and demand, with the demand increasing as the team's good fortune (or entertainment value) does. Why would the owners cut ticket prices in the five years after the lockout when (a) the on-ice product was more exciting than it had been in nearly 15 years and (b) the League's new economic system created parity, which created close playoff races, which created interest in moribund markets like Chicago and Boston again? The number of "losing" teams seemed smaller after the lockout thanks to the forced parity of the salary cap and the League's standings.

    Bettman was wrong in saying a majority of the teams would rollback ticket prices as salaries were rolled back, but he was right that ticket prices are set on a market-by-market basis. While writers like ESPN's Terry Frei suggested that "Bettman should twist arms and mandate at least 20 percent cuts in those markets where the payrolls will go down at least $10 million next season" after the lockout, the fact is that it was up to each team to assess the damage and act accordingly.

    Within a few years of the cancelled season, the wounds had scabbed over the fans were back to filling every arena whose teams gave them a compelling reason to return.

    Did Bettman vow that ticket prices would be lower under a new CBA back in 2004-05? Yes, and that faulty prediction has continued to make the NHL and the owners look downright misleading in their rhetoric.

    That's why in 2012, we still read about the Bettman Ticket Price Promise — not so we can expect another one, but so we're reminded to never buy into speculation from a man that abhors it.

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    • #3
      NHL and NHLPA argue over the fundamentals of surrendering players

      The NHL and the NHLPA met on Thursday, with Donald Fehr and the players presenting what Commissioner Gary Bettman called "the balance of their proposal."

      To the surprise of no one, Bettman added: "We are far apart on that system." Which is something one usually hears before a work stoppage that seems more inevitable with each negotiating session.

      More Bettman sound bytes, via Renaud P Lavoie of RDS:

      "We are focus on making a deal … NHLPA wants to keep things the way they are, and that is slowing the process."

      "We believe that we are paying the players more that we should be."

      "It's difficult to make progress when you don't know what are the fundamentals."

      So what's fundamentally preventing a deal?

      The NHL's basic premise: Along with salary cap loopholes, wage inflation and revenue sharing, the NHL's owners royally screwed the pooch in the last CBA on the percentage of revenue they allowed the players to earn. (Keep in mind this was collective bargaining that the NHL allegedly "won.")

      Emboldened by ownership wins in the NBA and NFL, the NHL's owners want to dramatically reduce that 57-percent of revenues down to, at best for the players, a 50/50 split. This would be accomplished via a rollback on existing contracts.

      Why? Because the NHL feels that despite pulling in $3.3 billion in revenue last season, it still has a large number of teams that lose money. (Which, again, speaks to flaws in a system that the NHL succeeded in implementing.)

      The $3.3 billion is oft-quoted, but the NHL feels it's misleading: How much are teams actually making once you account for expenses and debt? So the CBA debate is about stopping that bleeding before it gushes, in the League's eyes.

      The players are pretty cool with the current system, to the point where they volunteered to slash their share of the revenue down to around 54 percent in their "alternate" proposal — with the caveat that they'll work with the NHL's biggest revenue-generating teams on the redistribution of that wealth. A partnership, if you will. What a concept.

      The players are willing to do this because they're not fighting the current salary cap system — salaries would go down, but the mechanisms currently in place to re-inflate them like salary arbitration and free agency would be maintained.

      Remember how Bettman was talking about "the fundamentals" today? Herein lies the "gulf" between the sides: The players might even consider dipping down to the expected 50/50 split with the owners … if the rest of the financial system was in fact the status quo. But the NHL wants a reduction in salaries and revisions to the current system that will, again, protect the owners from themselves.

      That means getting rid of arbitration, shackling rookies to 5-year contracts, making UFA status achievable only after 10 years of NHL service and other tweaks. So while the players might swallow a 24-percent salary rollback again under the current system, they certainly won't if the rest of the NHL's plans are enacted, because it would deaden wage growth in this League for years.

      There are other fundamentals too, on the players' side. Via Mirtle:

      Fundamental issue for players is they want dollar value on their contracts to reflect what they'll get paid. After all, escrow would be huge w/ big HRR share dip. Players don't want the $4-mil deal signed two months ago to suddenly pay them $3-mil.

      So, in summary: The NHL thinks it gave the players too much of the League's revenue seven years ago, it wants to take it back and it wants to make sure that its 30 franchise owners can't completely [expletive] themselves again with loophole-laden monster contracts and spend-to-the-cap salaries by installing yet more fail-safes into the system.

      (Which, one imagines, the owners will simply circumvent again if it means gaining a competitive advantage over each other.)

      Meanwhile, the players are left wondering how mismanagement (on and off the ice) in places like Phoenix, New Jersey, Long Island and Columbus can be remedied by their giving up 24 percent of their salary under the NHL's proposal.

      They'll keep wondering through a lockout. Only the NHL knows for how long. They have the leverage, and they have the confidence that fans and media will return when the League does because we've already done it once.

      Meanwhile, arena and front office workers in Calgary are preparing for their own salary rollbacks, casualties to this labor war. And there will be more.

      Comment


      • #4
        Labor talks last 90 minutes

        TORONTO -- Another NHL lockout is beginning to look inevitable.

        Unable to move beyond the philosophical stage of talks, the owners and players have watched another week slip by without progress. They sat down together for a quick session Thursday morning before reporting the same significant gap that has existed all along.

        The main issue that divides them is far from complex.

        "We believe we're paying out more than we should be," commissioner Gary Bettman said. "It's as simple as that."

        Of course, the NHL Players' Association doesn't quite see it that way.

        Executive director Donald Fehr has acknowledged there's room for some flexibility in that area -- last week's proposal included three years with a slightly lower share in revenues for the players -- but he hasn't come to the table in a conciliatory mood after taking over a union that capitulated during the last round of negotiations.

        "Everybody understands that employers would always like to pay less," Fehr said. "That's not a surprise to anybody -- it's disappointing sometimes -- but it's not a surprise."

        He went on to add that the services his constituents provide are irreplaceable.

        "From the players' standpoint, they want a fair agreement, they want one that is equitable, they want one that recognizes their contribution," Fehr said.

        With both sides so entrenched, real negotiations have yet to begin even though the Sept. 15 deadline for a lockout is fast approaching.

        The parties attempted to make some progress Wednesday by clearing the meeting room of everyone but the key figures: Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly along with Fehr and his brother Steve Fehr, the union's No. 2 man. They soon discovered there was little common ground.

        Those same four men will reopen talks next Tuesday in New York during what promises to be a key negotiation session. The sides have tentatively blocked off the rest of the week for meetings as well, but they must first determine if there's anything worth talking about.

        That's far from guaranteed.
        NHL labor talks resume - ESPN
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        • #5
          I'm guessing a lot of the Star players, and the better players weren't even in the league the last time this happened. Although the leaders of both sides should not only know better, but remind their respective sides what happened the last time the league shut down. It's obvious they just think everything will be back to normal in a couple years. First of all, there wont be a fan base to support what the players want. There isnt now. Not sure why they thing there will be if they walk. As fans will have had enough. Betman is doing a pathetic job as a leader of the league from what I can tell. At least as far as this is concerned. And after he work so hard to regain the fans. He's saying all the wrong things for one. He must think things will be ok in the long run. I dont see how. Nobody will miss it with football and basketball. Personally I think the sport is doomed if there's another lockout. What a shame. it's looking like Soccer is going to gain some fans.
          Fav. teams are Eagles, Astros, Flyers and Sixers. Prospects and rookies of any teams.
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          • #6
            Bettman, NHL issue another proposal to players - Yahoo! Sports

            NEW YORK (AP) -- The NHL issued a new proposal to the players' association Tuesday as a lockout looms next month.

            And at least one side is happy about it.

            ''We believe,'' NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman said, ''that we made a significant, meaningful step.''

            Time will tell, but at least NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr and his players have another proposal - the league's second this summer - to digest. The two sides will meet again on Wednesday at the NHL offices.

            A less optimistic Fehr labeled the offering ''a proposal that we intend to respond to.'' Meanwhile, Bettman called it a ''counterproposal'' to the offer the players presented to the league earlier this month. In that proposal, the players had offered to take two-, four- and six-percent reductions in Hockey Related Revenue for the first three years of a new collective bargaining agreement.

            ''We felt in order to move the process along,'' Bettman said, ''we tried to address the fundamental issues.''

            Neither the league nor the players would divulge specifics of the proposal, although Montreal forward Mathieu Darche said he was ''encouraged.''

            ''We had a lot of people at the office evaluating the proposal,'' said Darche, who estimated he received ''20, 25 texts'' from players asking for details of the different proposal. ''It didn't take them five minutes to write it and it won't take us five minutes to read it.''

            The current CBA expires Sept. 15 and the NHL has said it will lock the players out if a new deal isn't reached.

            Limiting the personnel at the bargaining table in the hope of making progress, only Fehr and his top assistant, Steve Fehr, met with Bettman and NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly on Tuesday morning when the proposal was issued. Traditionally, several players have joined in on the talks.

            Tuesday's session was the second time in six days that the meeting was limited to just the four executives. They met for two hours last Wednesday in Toronto, exclusively. That meeting was to discuss the state of the negotiations.

            ''We don't know the answer to that,'' Fehr said when asked if the smaller meetings jumpstarted the negotiating process. ''If it doesn't (work), we'll find another way.''

            After the sessions in Toronto, the return to New York was a strange one for both sides. Negotiations resumed in the morning, as planned, but then took a slight break while Fehr left the building. Upon exiting, he told reporters talks had paused just for a bit.

            ''I think the appropriate thing to do under the circumstances is go back (to our office). We've got constituents and so on,'' Fehr said at the time. ''And so we'll see you later on I'm sure.''

            He eventually returned to confirm the proposal, and was joined by player representatives this time. Fehr was accompanied by Darche, San Jose defenseman Douglas Murray and Winnipeg defenseman Ron Hainsey.

            Tuesday's session was billed as ''core economic,'' and if nothing else, the players now have more to work with.

            ''I'm trying to get us on to the same page,'' Bettman said. ''I'm trying to get us on to a common language.''

            But, clearly, he knows what he's up against. In fact, following the session, Bettman said he wouldn't ''feel better about this process until it is successfully completed.'' He defined successful completion as having ''a collective bargaining agreement.''

            Time's running out for that.

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            • #7
              NHLPA's counteroffer for CBA could arrive Thursday - Yahoo! Sports

              NEW YORK (AP) -- The NHL and NHLPA remained at an impasse in the latest round of collective bargaining talks as the deadline for a lockout looms.

              The players' association took issue Wednesday with the latest NHL proposal that commissioner Gary Bettman called ''meaningful'' and ''significant.''

              Donald Fehr, the NHLPA's executive director, and his assistants have broken down Bettman's latest offering. Fehr is expected to make a counterproposal as early as Thursday.

              The two sides are at odds over hockey-related revenue. The league wants to knock down the players' percentage to 46. The players' share of HRR was 57 percent last season. Fehr said changes in how HRR is calculated would see the amount of money players give up to escrow increase ''significantly.'' Under the NHL's proposal, the union said current contracts would not be paid in full.

              ''From a players' standpoint, you should understand, it doesn't make much of a difference,'' Fehr said Wednesday. ''Should the player not get the dollar value that is on his contract because there is a rollback, which is simply a name for crossing out one number and writing in another, or whether he doesn't get an amount because there is escrow, he still doesn't get it.''

              The current CBA expires Sept. 15 and the league has said it will lock the players out if a new agreement isn't in place by then. Bettman says he's content to wait for that aforementioned response from the union, but declared that players shouldn't feel any ''entitlement'' to 57 percent of revenues.

              Unlike the current CBA in which salaries are tied into revenues, the league's plan calls for the first three years to be separated from HRR. Also, HRR would be redefined in the final three years of the six-year CBA.

              The cap ceiling would drop to $58 million for next season. It would rise to $60 million in 2013-14 and top out at a projected $71 million in 2017-18.

              The league and players set the cap ceiling for the 2012-13 season at $70.2 million in a joint statement released in June.

              That means 16 teams would be forced to shed varying amounts of salary under the league's proposal. A short list of those teams are the Boston Bruins, Minnesota Wild, Vancouver Canucks, Calgary Flames, Philadelphia Flyers, Toronto Maple Leafs, Chicago Blackhawks, Los Angeles Kings, Pittsburgh Penguins, Washington Capitals and New York Rangers.

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              • #8
                Lockout looming after NHL talks break off - Yahoo! Sports

                NHL labor negotiations are at a standstill after talks broke off on Friday, significantly raising concerns the league is two weeks away from its fourth labor dispute in 20 years.

                Negotiations that were scheduled to resume in New York next week are now in limbo after NHL Players' Association executive director Don Fehr announced that the league had asked that talks be ''recessed.''

                The latest development came after the union presented its latest proposal during negotiations at the NHL headquarters in New York. The league has threatened to lock out its players once the current collective bargaining agreement expires on Sept. 15.

                ''Unfortunately, so far at least,'' Fehr said, ''that proposal we made today did not bear fruit.''

                For the first time since talks began in late June, NHL officials began expressing concern as to whether a deal can be reached to avoid a disruption of training camps.

                ''I think that today was clearly a setback,'' NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly wrote in an email to The Associated Press. ''It's going to be tough to get something done in time to open camps unless or until the union changes its position and indicated a willingness to move off of its current proposal, which it was clearly not prepared to do today.''

                Daly added: ''Hopefully, the union and the players will re-evaluate where we are, and where they are willing to go in the coming days.''

                The regular season is set to open Oct. 11, but that is now uncertain given the tenor or negotiations.

                The NHL has already had three labor disputes since April 1, 1992, when players held a 10-day strike which forced 30 games to be rescheduled. The most memorable and disruptive breakdown in labor talks came during the last negotiations, which led to the entire 2004-05 season being wiped out.

                The NHLPA's latest offer came three days after the NHL made its first counterproposal on Tuesday. After asking the players to cut their share of hockey revenue from 57 to 43 percent, the NHL upped its proposal to have the players get a 46 percent share over a six-year deal.

                The union revised its initial offer by proposing to restructure the fourth and final year of its initial offer. The NHLPA was willing to give back between $465 million and $800 million in revenue over the first three years of the deal so long as the system switched back to the existing agreement in the fourth year.

                Fehr has now countered by proposing ''several concepts'' in which the players would get less than 57 percent of revenues in the fourth and final year. The NHLPA, however, is still asking NHL owners to establish a revenue sharing program to help struggling teams.

                NHL commissioner Gary Bettman called revenue sharing ''a distraction'' and questioned whether the union made an actual counterproposal or a mere response to the league's presentation.

                ''Basically, they stood by their initial deal,'' Bettman said. ''They didn't make an offer. ... (They) weren't prepared to discuss core economics.''

                As for further talks, Bettman said he didn't see a need to continue negotiations until new ideas can be brought to the table.

                ''There's nothing scheduled because there's nothing that we're prepared to say in light of the fact there was really no substantive movement on the economics,'' Bettman said. ''In effect, (talks) got stonewalled today.''

                This is not the turn in negotiations the commissioner was hoping for, especially after the NHL altered its proposal this week.

                ''What I thought was a promising week ended with disappointment,'' Bettman said.

                Fehr disagreed, by saying the players did make concessions.

                ''What the players did was ... make a very forthcoming proposal to the owners in an effort to find an agreement,'' Fehr said. ''It's not a modification of a proposal.''

                The NHLPA is planning to remain in New York for the next two weeks should the NHL be willing to reopen talks. The union has also scheduled an executive board meeting in New York for Sept. 12-13.

                The union has questioned the NHL as to why it is attempting to have players bear much of the burden of cost savings, especially after the league reported record revenues topping $3.1 billion last season.

                Aside from asking the players to take an across-the-board cut in their share of revenues, the NHL is also seeking to place severe limits on free agency while also abolishing players' rights to salary arbitration.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Informal labor talks resume between NHL, NHLPA - Yahoo! Sports

                  NEW YORK (AP) -- Representatives from the NHL and the players' association held informal negotiations on Friday at the league offices.

                  With the expiration date on the current collective bargaining agreement - Sept. 15 - drawing near, NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr, and his top assistant and brother, Steve Fehr, sat down with Commissioner Gary Bettman and his deputy, Bill Daly, for a status check after a week of little to no communication. The two sides last held formal discussions last Friday, but those ended with Donald Fehr telling reporters the talks were in a ''recess.''

                  Players have often flanked the Fehrs for support in the process, and Friday was no different. Winnipeg defenseman Ron Hainsey, Minnesota forward Zenon Konopka and Buffalo defenseman Robyn Regher were on hand in New York.

                  The league has said it will lock the players out if a new deal isn't reached by the 15th.

                  ''(We're) trying to find a way to bridge the gap,'' Donald Fehr said. ''That's always the intent.''

                  Negotiations, throughout the summer, have taken breaks during weekends. But with the deadline nearing, there's a good chance the two sides meet on Saturday.

                  ''We expect discussions to resume,'' Fehr said. ''We don't know yet.''

                  Bettman confirmed the meeting lasted two hours on Friday, and as he has been through the most of the process, he remains optimistic.

                  ''We'd like to make a deal,'' he said, refusing to characterize the mood of the morning session. ''There is an ebb and flow to negotiations.

                  ''It's always good to have dialogue.''

                  Meanwhile, teams around the league are preparing for a stoppage. On Friday, in a conference call to announce a new deal for forward Brad Marchand, Boston general manager Peter Chiarelli said the Bruins cancelled an upcoming rookie camp and tournament. The Detroit Red Wings did the same thing last month.

                  When talks broke off last week, the NHLPA responded to an offer from the NHL with changes to an earlier proposal. The union's most recent offer came three days after the NHL made its first counterproposal last Tuesday. After asking the players to cut their share of hockey revenue from 57 to 43 percent, the NHL upped its proposal to have the players get a 46 percent share over a six-year deal.

                  The union revised its initial offer by proposing to restructure the fourth and final year of its initial offer. The NHLPA was willing to give back between $465 million and $800 million in revenue over the first three years of the deal as long as the system switched back to the existing agreement in the fourth year.

                  Donald Fehr countered by proposing ''several concepts'' in which the players would get less than 57 percent of revenues in the fourth and final year. The NHLPA, however, is still asking NHL owners to establish a revenue sharing program to help struggling teams.

                  Bettman called revenue sharing ''a distraction'' and questioned whether the union made an actual counterproposal or a mere response to the league's presentation.

                  The union has questioned the NHL as to why it is attempting to have players bear much of the burden of cost savings, especially after the league reported record revenues topping $3.3 billion last season.

                  Aside from asking the players to take an across-the-board cut in their share of revenues, the NHL is also seeking to place severe limits on free agency while also abolishing players' rights to salary arbitration.

                  The NHL has had three labor disputes since April 1, 1992, when players held a 10-day strike that forced 30 games to be rescheduled. The most recent two were lockouts.

                  The regular season is scheduled to begin on Oct. 11.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sources: NHL to meet NHLPA

                    NEW YORK -- Although relations between the NHL and NHLPA seem to be growing increasingly contentious in the week leading up to the lockout, the two sides plan to meet Wednesday morning, multiple sources told ESPNNewYork.com.

                    Wednesday's meeting is expected to be informal, similar to that of last Friday, when NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly sat down with NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr and his brother, Steve.

                    It is not clear whether the union, which held a conference call with players Wednesday, will submit an offer.

                    The two sides have not had formal discussions since talks broke down on Aug. 31. At that time, the NHL was seeking a comprehensive counter-proposal from the union to its second offer; Bettman indicated the NHL was not pleased with the response they received.

                    Wednesday's discussions will be held in advance of the union's player meetings, to be held Wednesday and Thursday in Manhattan. The NHL will be meeting as well; the Board of Governors meeting is slated to convene Thursday in New York.
                    NHL to meet players' union Wednesday as lockout looms, sources say - ESPN New York
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                    • #11
                      Agent Scott Norton suggested the lockout could last for a year and a half.
                      The general feeling is that there will be hockey this year, but that the regular season would start between Thanksgiving and the Winter Classic. But Norton doesn't agree. "The NHLPA, agents, and players are much more unified than they were at the start of the last work stoppage [in 2004]," said Norton. "We are all impressed with [NHLPA executive director] Donald Fehr’s abilities, persona, and the way he has involved players and agents in meetings, and feel very strongly that NHLPA will stick together this time…if it means a missing a month [of games] or 2 seasons."

                      Source: Forbes.com
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                      • #12
                        NHL says no bargaining with union Saturday - Yahoo! Sports

                        NEW YORK (AP) -- The NHL says there will be no bargaining with the players' union Saturday, leaving nothing to stop a lockout.

                        NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told The Associated Press in an email that the sides have spoken by telephone, but no negotiations will happen before the midnight deadline.

                        This was the third straight day the sides spoke by phone but avoided the negotiating table. By early afternoon it became clear the league was heading to its fourth work stoppage since 1992.

                        For nearly a year, NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman has vowed to lock out players if a collective bargaining agreement wasn't set by the time the current one expires.

                        It now appears unlikely that training camps will open next week. The regular season had been scheduled to begin Oct. 11, but that is also in peril.

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                        • #13
                          On ice: NHL locks out its players - Yahoo! Sports

                          NEW YORK (AP) -- The clock struck midnight, and the NHL turned into another sports league closed for business.

                          Unable to reach agreement on a new labor deal, the National Hockey League locked out its players at 12:01 a.m. Sunday, the third major pro sport to impose a work stoppage in the last 18 months, behind the NFL and NBA.

                          The action also marks the fourth shutdown for the NHL since 1992, including a year-long dispute that forced the cancellation of the entire 2004-05 season when the league successfully held out for a salary cap.

                          That fight ended with the latest collective bargaining agreement, and when it ended Commissioner Gary Bettman followed through on his longstanding pledge to lock out the players if no deal was in place.

                          NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly confirmed the shutdown was in effect. The union said it would have no comment.

                          The sides were so far apart in their discussions that they didn't even meet face-to-face for negotiations on Saturday.

                          The core issue is money - how to split a $3.3 billion pot of revenue. The owners want to decrease the percentage of hockey-related revenue that goes to players, while the union wants a guarantee that players annually get at least the $1.8 billion in salaries paid out last season.

                          Hours before the deadline, the lockout was considered a foregone conclusion.

                          ''We talked with the union this morning, and in light of the fact that they have nothing new to offer, or any substantive response to our last proposal, there would be nothing gained by convening a bargaining session at this time,'' Daly said in a statement earlier Saturday. ''I'm sure that we will remain in contact in the coming days.''

                          The dispute is latest chapter in labor unrest that has vexed American professional sports. The NFL was locked out for much of the offseason in 2011 while the last NBA season was shortened from 82 games to 66 and began on Christmas.

                          Baseball successfully reached a labor deal and some have suggested that the fact MLB didn't have a work stoppage has to do with the fact that baseball has no salary cap, allowing for more wiggle room in negotiations.

                          Despite a third straight day of telephone discussions between Daly and players' association special counsel Steve Fehr, the brother of NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr, hopes of face-to-face talks were dashed early Saturday.

                          ''We suggested that the parties meet in advance of the owners' self-imposed deadline of midnight tonight,'' Steve Fehr said Saturday in a written statement. ''Don Fehr, myself and several players on the Negotiating Committee were in the City and prepared to meet. The NHL said that it saw no purpose in having a formal meeting.

                          ''There have been and continue to be private, informal discussions between representatives of both sides.''

                          It now appears unlikely that training camps will open next week. The regular season is scheduled to begin Oct. 11, but that is also in peril.

                          ''It's a sad situation for everybody. Nobody wants to be in this spot,'' Detroit Red Wings defenseman Niklas Kronwall said. ''We couldn't agree on a deal. We see it one way, and the owners another way unfortunately.''

                          One sign of the split: The NHL's website went from featuring current players to remembering great moments in the sport, such as the 1987 Canada Cup.

                          While the NHL lockout might not wipe out the whole season as the one in 2004-05 did, a sizeable chunk of games could be lost without productive talks soon.

                          In jeopardy are a couple of key dates on the calendar: the New Year's Day outdoor Winter Classic at 115,000-seat Michigan Stadium between the host Detroit Red Wings and the Toronto Maple Leafs; and the Jan. 27 All-Star game hosted by the Columbus Blue Jackets, one of the league's struggling small-market teams.

                          The sides traded proposals Wednesday, but neither new offer moved them closer to a deal. The lack of progress then made a lockout almost inevitable.

                          ''I think it's fair to say there was no realistic expectation to avoid lockout as of developments on Wednesday and Thursday,'' Daly told The Associated Press.

                          Bettman has insisted that hockey management is determined to come away with economic gains, even at the cost of another work stoppage. Financial damage is certain to occur almost immediately, and there is no telling how jilted fans and sponsors will react to another shutdown, especially if it lasts through the fall and into the winter.

                          Players are concerned management hasn't addressed the league's financial problems by re-examining the teams' revenue-sharing formula. Having made several big concessions to reach a deal in 2005, the union doesn't think it should have to make more this time after record financial growth.

                          Once the lockout was imposed in September 2004, the sides didn't get back together until December. That stalemate was finally resolved in July 2005.

                          Players absorbed a salary-cap system - the major issue then - and took an immediate 24 percent rollback of existing contracts in exchange for 57 percent of hockey-related revenues. The NHL now says that figure is too high, and wants to reduce players' share to a range between 49 percent and 47 percent.

                          Its original offer was to cut it to 43 percent.

                          Bettman said the league's latest offer would be pulled off the table once the current CBA expired because the hardship caused by a lockout would force the NHL to reassess what it could then offer.

                          Without a philosophical difference this time over the salary cap, the sides merely have to figure out a way to divide hockey revenues that grew from $2.1 billion to $3.3 billion under the expiring deal.

                          On Friday, the Quebec labor relations board rejected a request from the players' association for a temporary injunction against a potential lockout in Quebec. But the board also ruled that more hearings are needed to make a final decision.

                          NHL players struck in April 1992, causing 30 games to be postponed. This marks the third lockout under Bettman. The 1994-95 lockout ended after 103 days and the cancellation of 468 games.

                          The most recent stoppage was settled after 301 days and a month after the league would have awarded the Stanley Cup. It marked the first time a North American professional sports league lost an entire season because of a labor dispute, and the first time the Stanley Cup wasn't handed out since 1919, when a flu epidemic prevented a champion from being crowned.

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                          • #14
                            There is bunch of rumors going around that the lockout will last three years.. what do you guys think about that?
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                            • #15
                              Daly hopes NHL labor talks will resume this week - Yahoo! Sports

                              TORONTO (AP) -- A face-to-face meeting between top officials from the NHL and NHL Players' Association wasn't enough to break their labor stalemate.

                              The sides spent almost five hours together on Monday going over accounting for last season, but didn't emerge with any plan to resume negotiations on a new collective bargaining agreement to end the lockout.

                              The topic wasn't even raised, according to representatives from each group.

                              Nine days into the lockout, negotiations remain on hold with owners and players entrenched in their positions.

                              ''Obviously, we've got to talk before you can get a deal, so I think it's important to get the talks going again,'' NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said. ''But you also have to have something to say. I think it's fair to say we feel like we need to hear from the players' association in a meaningful way because I don't think that they've really moved off their initial proposal, which was made more than a month ago.''

                              Steve Fehr, the NHLPA's special counsel, declined comment following the meeting.

                              NHLPA head Donald Fehr and commissioner Gary Bettman didn't attend the meeting, but they were expected to see each other at an NHL alumni dinner on Monday night. Daly suggested they might discuss a timeline then for resuming talks.

                              The sides last sat down together on Sept. 12, when the union presented a proposal that was quickly countered by the league. Neither offer moved talks closer to an agreement, and the NHL locked out the players three days later.

                              Not only are the sides far apart on financial issues - they are roughly $1 billion apart based on the latest proposals - but they have also failed to find agreement on the process.

                              While the league has remained adamant about the need for the sides to discuss only the economic system that governs the sport, the union has said it would be willing to continue negotiations on the other aspects of the agreement that need to be worked out.

                              In the meantime, players have started predicting it will be another prolonged lockout. New York Rangers forward Rick Nash told a Swiss reporter last week that the work stoppage could last an entire year, and Detroit Red Wings forward Danny Cleary repeated that sentiment after an informal skate on Monday.

                              ''Just trying to be realistic,'' Cleary told the Detroit Free Press. ''I think the league is waiting for us to make the move, and we're waiting for them to move. So someone has to move. And I don't see it coming from our end.

                              ''We've given them a couple of good options that they can work with, and they, obviously, feel it's not good enough.''

                              Daly isn't willing to entertain the notion that another season could be lost as was the case when a lockout caused the cancellation of the entire 2004-05 campaign.

                              The NHL has already called off all preseason games in September, but Daly said he is hopeful an agreement can be reached in time to start the regular season as scheduled on Oct. 11.

                              ''I'm hoping that some of (the players') pessimism is almost an intentional pessimism because certainly that's not where our mindset is,'' Daly said. ''We don't want an extended work stoppage, we don't want to miss any regular-season games. That's going to be our mindset until we have to cancel some.''

                              There was one piece of good news for the players Monday. Daly indicated they will likely end up receiving almost all of the 8.5 percent in salary that was held back from them last season in escrow - guaranteeing at least one decent payday next month.

                              They are due to receive the first of 13 pay checks for the upcoming season on Oct. 15, but that appears less and less likely with each day that passes without meaningful negotiations.

                              Still, Daly believes the sides are ''light years'' ahead of where they found themselves in 2004, when three months went by after the beginning of the lockout before talks started.

                              ''We've been talking within the same framework, we've had a lot of discussions about a lot of ground in a lot of the other areas we need to,'' he said. ''But obviously we still have a financial divide we have to find out how to bridge.''

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