RIP Marvin Miller

[bdangelo]

Hi gang,

Baseball lost one of its most significant figures today, as Marvin Miller died at age 95. Marvin was the executive director of the players' union starting in the mid-1960s, a brilliant man and tough negotiator who is the reason why today's players are raking in so much money. The fact that Miller is still not in the Hall of Fame is an absolute travesty. He will get in posthumously, but the fact that the Veterans Committee kept bypassing him was criminal. Guess they didn't want to hear an induction speech from him, it would have clashed with the normal warm fuzzy speeches that inductees usually give.

An incredible figure in baseball history, in my mind one of the top five significant figures. Put him up there with Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson, Branch Rickey and Kenesaw Mountain Landis.

Bob

[tndcollectables]

Yeap, he is the reason fans are paying more and more to watch a game.

[jwgreen68]

Yeap, he is the reason fans are paying more and more to watch a game.

Exactly!!!

[bdangelo]

I think you miss the point. Before Miller, baseball players had no bargaining power and no say in health benefits. Miller got them both. The owners are the ones that allowed salaries to skyrocket. Read "Lords of the Realm" for a more unvarnished view of what really happened.

Bob

[jwgreen68]

I think you miss the point. Before Miller, baseball players had no bargaining power and no say in health benefits. Miller got them both. The owners are the ones that allowed salaries to skyrocket. Read "Lords of the Realm" for a more unvarnished view of what really happened.

Bob

No, I understand your point, I just disagree with it. People look to unions as the savior of the poor underpaid worker, when , really unions just increase the cost of everything we buy. Remember that the next time you buy a new American made car for 400% more than what it cost to make it.

[tndcollectables]

I think you miss the point. Before Miller, baseball players had no bargaining power and no say in health benefits. Miller got them both. The owners are the ones that allowed salaries to skyrocket. Read "Lords of the Realm" for a more unvarnished view of what really happened.

Bob

I understand the point. Insurance goes up for the players/owners the fans has to pay for it. The players can't pay for the extra BMW, the fans have to pay for it.

[jwgreen68]

I have to buy my own health insurance, why shouldn't millionaire baseball players have to do the same?

[tndcollectables]

I have to buy my own health insurance, why shouldn't millionaire baseball players have to do the same?

Because then they can't buy their BMW/Mercedes/Porsche or have 15 kids with 7 different women.

[tndcollectables]

Because then they can't buy their BMW/Mercedes/Porsche or have 15 kids with 7 different women.

Oops I forgot 5 different states.

[bdangelo]

MLB’s revenue has grown from $50 million in 1967 to $7.5 billion last season. I don't think the owners are hurting. Any good negotiator would try and get a better deal for his side (in this case, players). I don't always agree with unions, but Miller got players strong collective bargaining, arbitration and free agency. Before that, players faced a one-way "negotiation" with owners. I agree prices and salaries have skyrocketed, but is that the players' fault?

Here's a quote from former Commissioner Fay Vincent, a guy whose salary was paid for by the owners. “I think (Miller) is the most important baseball figure of the last 50 years. He
changed not just the sport but the business of the sport permanently, and he truly emancipat
ed the baseball player — and in the process all professional athletes. Prior to his time, they
had few rights; at the moment, they control the games.”

That's why Miller belongs in the Hall of Fame. Even his adversaries recognized his importance.

Bob

[tndcollectables]

And that is why the regular fans are being priced out of going to the games.

[jwgreen68]

We can debate this all night if you wish. I'm prepared, as having spent 20+ years fighting the union on behalf of the world's largest retailer.

Revenues(sales) have risen significantly, but so have the costs of doing business. Figure in corporation, income and sales taxes, increased cost of goods, higher wages(the little guys in the lower income class), inflation, etc. While it's true that the owner makes the majority of the money, they also assume the biggest risk. Show me a business, where the owner is going to split profit evenly with it's employees. You won't. These owners risk millions, if not billions of dollars on what they hope is a good return on their investment. Some fail(small market teams) or worse, huge contracts(A-Rod, Pujols)that fail to fill the seats and sell merchandise. But, a success of a franchise is based on one thing, a World Championship.

Unions have killed free enterprise and small business. More federal money goes to union PACS than re invested in small business. That's fine. You may want big brother controlling your businesses and baseball, but I enjoy it just the way it is. If I don't want to pay $100 for a seat, I'll watch it on TV and have a 6 pack for the price of 1 union ballpark brew.

MLB’s revenue has grown from $50 million in 1967 to $7.5 billion last season. I don't think the owners are hurting. Any good negotiator would try and get a better deal for his side (in this case, players). I don't always agree with unions, but Miller got players strong collective bargaining, arbitration and free agency. Before that, players faced a one-way "negotiation" with owners. I agree prices and salaries have skyrocketed, but is that the players' fault?

Here's a quote from former Commissioner Fay Vincent, a guy whose salary was paid for by the owners. “I think (Miller) is the most important baseball figure of the last 50 years. He
changed not just the sport but the business of the sport permanently, and he truly emancipat
ed the baseball player — and in the process all professional athletes. Prior to his time, they
had few rights; at the moment, they control the games.”

That's why Miller belongs in the Hall of Fame. Even his adversaries recognized his importance.

Bob

[tndcollectables]

I worked for WalMart also and fought against the union, Also worked in a Union store, was forced to join the Union and hated it. They never did anything for me but take my money.